Why oh why do people want to be in relationships? The pain I'm seeing some of my friends go through now over relationships ending is so bad that no benefit can possibly be worth the anguish.
Because when it's working out, it totally makes up for all the times it didn't (And I speak from a track record of six endings and one success). And it only takes one success to outlast all the failures.
10+ years after my last bad breakup, so what I'd consider enough time for reflection (though admittedly, in the midst of a comparatively-good one), I have to say that, yes. If I had the choice of taking away the pain it's caused and losing the good points as well, I'd take that opportunity in a heartbeat.
But then again, I'm an easily-wounded misanthrope, so take it as you will.
There's frequent sex, grad school permitting, help with rent and having a captive audience when you spout off about all your crazy idea. Plus, the failed ones give you some great tall tales.
no!! that's the whole point of relationships -- life sucks, life is suffering, so all we can do is try our best to create enough love to make it bearable. so yeah, relationships ending can be awful and all that, but that's suffering which you have to expect. everything ends, and if you're attached to something finite then eventually you'll be disappointed.
1. I do think it is a legitimate choice to avoid relationships 2. i think things often look different in retrospect, when the pain has dulled. 3. I personally prefer a mix of highs and lows, good times and bad, than avoiding both.
Because as much as it hurts now it's the pain is (in most cases) not permanent. You know how blindsided and devestated I was last year. And here I am, 8 months later and happy again.
Yeah, I really admire you for that. And I'm used to seeing people bounce back eventually. It's just that now I'm also seeing times when that's not happening in any reasonable amount of time, or when the lows are so low that I'm not sure bouncing back is at all imminent or guaranteed.
honestly, that pain is really nothing much in the grand scheme of human suffering, and the positive benefits of good relationships outweigh it by an order of magnitude.
that is, for people who manage to figure out how to have good relationships. not everyone does. but still, we're pack creatures, we glom together, it's in our genes.
the thing that always gets me isn't that people go through pain in romantic relationships, but the sort of crap they put up with from blood relatives, sometimes for their entire lives. really, if you wouldn't put up with it from a good friend, don't put up with it from a parent.
the thing that always gets me isn't that people go through pain in romantic relationships, but the sort of crap they put up with from blood relatives, sometimes for their entire lives. really, if you wouldn't put up with it from a good friend, don't put up with it from a parent.
Drifting off-topic here, but I slightly disagree. I think you owe parents more than you'd owe a friend. Not tons more, and certainly not unending pain for years. But in exchange for them having raised you, I think you owe parents an attempt at working things out when the relationship has deteriorated to a certain point just beyond where you'd give up on a frienship. The fact that it's blood, and the fact of your history, does matter some in my book.
Bringing this up mainly because I've noticed your position is one that seems to be rather common among friends I've met on LJ, and pretty rare among the rest of my circles. I wonder why.
Oh! that reminds me of one of the readers give the advice letters, by the wife of the guy who isn't going to see his dying mom because he's dealt with their past and seeing her again is not good for his mental health.
I think that the key thing with the family pain is pretty selfish. I guess the dude in the letter has dealt with everything and won't feel bad about not saying good bye to his mom, but many other people will feel bad and will beat themselves up about it and the mom will be dead and there will be NOTHING they can do about it. Basically, I think people should work at their family relationships for their own personal sanity (and, I will admit, to a lesser extent because they should be appreciative that their family is still alive).
Can you feel bad about a bad ending with a friend or non relative? Sure, of course. But while you will never replace that individual person in your life, you will replace the "friend" slot in your life, but not so with close family.
And in general, why? A. cause relationships happen and unless you make a conscious effort to avoid them you'll probably fall into some throughout your life. B. cause life sucks. I hate the weighing the good and the bad crap and the finding good in the bad and the you need the bad to come with the good and blah blah. It just sucks. It does hurt. Relationships literally kill some people. So does walking across the street, and I still do that. Of course it's fun and at times, useful, to read into and analyze the why and what for, but it mostly just is.
It mostly just is, and I think there can be some comfort in that. But (and this plays into a motif from Gene's babies-in-cars article) a lot of people can't handle the randomness, and need to see some huge emotional dialectic in the world for them to accept bad stuff. It just makes the highs higher! Hey, buddy, if that works for you...
Let me try a rephrase: "Why oh why do people want to root for the Phillies? The pain I've seen some of my friends go through over seasons ending is so bad that no benefit can possibly be worth the anguish."
The difference is that the set of people who want to root for the Phillies is much, much, smaller than the set of people who want to be in relationships...
I can think of several differences. The main one is that the anguish isn't an exit cost. If the ups and downs of being a sports fan aren't for you, you can choose to stop following, and you more or less immediately go back to a baseline, neutral response to sports. (Or perhaps a toned-down version of your previous fandom, but my point is the same.) With relationships, the only way out may be on the other side of the pain.
Well, a relationship has its ups and downs too, trust me. Anyone who says differently is lying, probably because his/her sweetheart is in earshot. And when it ends on a low note, there's still always another "season" you can pin your hopes on (And eventually, even the Red Sox can win the big one, it seems), or you can choose to stop dating and go back to a neutral baseline (with a toned-down version of your previous entanglements).
The only major difference I see is that, with sports, you could theoretically "quit" on a truly high note, whereas relationships end at best on a mellow note.
And yes, sure, it's not nearly the impact on your life, but it's an approach by analogy, not a perfect one. There are fans that have followed teams only to be disappointed time after time, but they stick with it, because the highs and the lows are exciting, and they keep hoping for the big win. There's some parallel in that.
I've been thinking about that myself recently, since right now I'm in my first breakup, and even though it's been almost 2 months I still have moments of intense pain, and although I've been functional, for some reason during this past week or so it has been worse.
Going through it, I don't know whether or not I have the strength to go through something like this again.
But at the same time, for me, being alone forever would be far worse than going through these times of pain. The hope would be to minimize them and only get into a relationship which I thought had a good chance of working out, but I'm not sure how realistic this is.
Also, for me, the benefit does make it worth it, assuming I ever find the right person. For me it's the necessary suffering that I have to go through before I find the right relationship.
I'd have to say that everything in life is there to give you perspective. Without a bad relationship or a painful breakup, how can you really know when you've found a good one? It's like driving cars. Until you've driven a really fine vehicle anything will do.
Which is why I refuse to ever ride in a REALLY nice car. I don't want to ruin my Volvo 240 experiences:p
See, I don't know if I buy that. There's some truth to that logic (and it's one of my several excuses/reasons for why I don't drink, not even a little bit). But on the other hand, to borrow from the example that smarriveurr (whom you know, by the way...) offered above, I don't think sports fit that mold. I've never experienced true, deep pain from sports. But the happiness I felt this past October was pretty pure, very real, and more intense than it should have been if the joy were only a mirror of the pain.
Or, to get a bit more philosophical, why should a person necessarily strive to reach their extremes, their highest highs and their lowest lows? Unless there's some internal desire to do so, what's the benefit? And if a particular moment is the happiest thing you've ever experienced, why does it matter if it's the happiest thing you could experience (or closer to that extreme)? And, again back to my previous point, why would that necessarily need to be connected to experiencing extreme lows? Nope, not buying it.
Personally, I've had the most prductive growing experiences surrounding relationships. Ending them is painful, but it's a growing pain. It sucks a lot, don't get me wrong. And during a relationship is not always fun and games either. But relationships are one of the best ways for me to grow.
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Pic related.
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Ask the friend and she will tell you that she would not trade the good times if you offered to take away the current pain in exchange.
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But then again, I'm an easily-wounded misanthrope, so take it as you will.
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This is a more key feature than many people realize. I speak from great experience.
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... sorry. i guess i really am buddhist.
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2. i think things often look different in retrospect, when the pain has dulled.
3. I personally prefer a mix of highs and lows, good times and bad, than avoiding both.
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relationship pain
that is, for people who manage to figure out how to have good relationships. not everyone does. but still, we're pack creatures, we glom together, it's in our genes.
the thing that always gets me isn't that people go through pain in romantic relationships, but the sort of crap they put up with from blood relatives, sometimes for their entire lives. really, if you wouldn't put up with it from a good friend, don't put up with it from a parent.
Re: relationship pain
Drifting off-topic here, but I slightly disagree. I think you owe parents more than you'd owe a friend. Not tons more, and certainly not unending pain for years. But in exchange for them having raised you, I think you owe parents an attempt at working things out when the relationship has deteriorated to a certain point just beyond where you'd give up on a frienship. The fact that it's blood, and the fact of your history, does matter some in my book.
Bringing this up mainly because I've noticed your position is one that seems to be rather common among friends I've met on LJ, and pretty rare among the rest of my circles. I wonder why.
Re: relationship pain
I think that the key thing with the family pain is pretty selfish. I guess the dude in the letter has dealt with everything and won't feel bad about not saying good bye to his mom, but many other people will feel bad and will beat themselves up about it and the mom will be dead and there will be NOTHING they can do about it. Basically, I think people should work at their family relationships for their own personal sanity (and, I will admit, to a lesser extent because they should be appreciative that their family is still alive).
Can you feel bad about a bad ending with a friend or non relative? Sure, of course. But while you will never replace that individual person in your life, you will replace the "friend" slot in your life, but not so with close family.
And in general, why? A. cause relationships happen and unless you make a conscious effort to avoid them you'll probably fall into some throughout your life. B. cause life sucks. I hate the weighing the good and the bad crap and the finding good in the bad and the you need the bad to come with the good and blah blah. It just sucks. It does hurt. Relationships literally kill some people. So does walking across the street, and I still do that. Of course it's fun and at times, useful, to read into and analyze the why and what for, but it mostly just is.
Re: relationship pain
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The only major difference I see is that, with sports, you could theoretically "quit" on a truly high note, whereas relationships end at best on a mellow note.
And yes, sure, it's not nearly the impact on your life, but it's an approach by analogy, not a perfect one. There are fans that have followed teams only to be disappointed time after time, but they stick with it, because the highs and the lows are exciting, and they keep hoping for the big win. There's some parallel in that.
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Going through it, I don't know whether or not I have the strength to go through something like this again.
But at the same time, for me, being alone forever would be far worse than going through these times of pain. The hope would be to minimize them and only get into a relationship which I thought had a good chance of working out, but I'm not sure how realistic this is.
Also, for me, the benefit does make it worth it, assuming I ever find the right person. For me it's the necessary suffering that I have to go through before I find the right relationship.
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Which is why I refuse to ever ride in a REALLY nice car. I don't want to ruin my Volvo 240 experiences:p
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Or, to get a bit more philosophical, why should a person necessarily strive to reach their extremes, their highest highs and their lowest lows? Unless there's some internal desire to do so, what's the benefit? And if a particular moment is the happiest thing you've ever experienced, why does it matter if it's the happiest thing you could experience (or closer to that extreme)? And, again back to my previous point, why would that necessarily need to be connected to experiencing extreme lows? Nope, not buying it.
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--Jeff
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--Jeff
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