(no subject)

[desh]

You know, I've always felt much less connection to Israel than your typical active American Jew. I was only in Israel once, 10 years ago, and haven't had much desire to go back since. When the Israeli government does things I don't like, my reaction isn't "let's do something about that", but rather, "I don't want to be associated with that".

So why is the news making me sick to my stomach?

Comments

Re: Jeff Rants!, Exciting Conclusion

[gutwoman.livejournal.com]

"Israel should wake the fuck up, realize that it's digging itself further into a hole, and get the hell out of both Gaza and Lebanon before this escalates any further."

and then what, tell everyone up north to brace themselves for major explosions while we sit back and do nothing? because somehow I feel that the Hizbollah won't be taking that apology to heart.
I find that being here, I have little patience for reading through political musings, whether or not they are valid (which yours probably are to some extent). it just seems much more clear cut than all this. Israel was experiencing serious acts of war, and responded by doing its best to target an enemy which is very difficult to target. When I hear about the 'escalation of violence' supposedly triggered by Israel, I wonder what people would suggest as a response to the kidnapping and killing of soldiers in their own territory - an eye for an eye? kidnapping and killing a few members of the Hizbollah? What would this accomplish? It disgusts me that as always, the world talks about Israel bombarding random cities and innocent civilians, when it is obvious that in reality, Israel is pinpointing the lifelines of Hizbollah (the airport, seaport etc). Obviously, if civilians were the target in the first day of attacks the toll would have been 500 or 5000, not 50. This is a war, and this is what happens in war, and if Israel were to pick up and leave now after multiple declarations of war by its enemies - it's hard not to come to the conclusion that that would be an extremely dangerous move. I really don't claim to know pretty much anything about war, but I do know that what a lot of the media sources are saying isn't making much sense to me at this point.

Re: Jeff Rants!, Exciting Conclusion

[jdcohen.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to try to argue that Israel is a monster, because that's patently untrue. However, I will argue that Israel is reacting emotionally instead of rationally - for exactly the same reasons you just put forth. Israel sees itself as the victim only, and sees its conduct as justified. That's just not true. Israel is at war with Hezbollah, not Lebanon. Blowing up bridges, fuel depots, and airports affects everyone in Lebanon, not just Hezbollah. Ideally, Israel could rely on the Mossad to carry out targetted assassinations against Hezbollah members, which is riskier than airstrikes but a lot more focused, surgical even. And if Hezbollah still sends rockets over the border, then Israel should respond with a single artillery shell per rocket. And if Israel wants, they should defoliate a kilometer's worth of no-man's land along their northern border to prevent exactly this kind of kidnapping. Instead, Israel sends in jets and helicopter gunships, which are precise enough to target bridges and Hezbollah convoys, but still not precise enough to avoid civilian casualties. That's why Israel gets bad foreign press - because, for example, the death of an entire Hamas family is acceptable to Israel's military strategists as long as they get the Hamas leader they wanted, while the rest of the world mourns the loss of a half-dozen women and children. Israel's perspective is tainted by rage, to the point that the IDF and the government can write off these women and children as "acceptable collateral damage". No innocent lives should be "acceptable collateral damage".

If that doesn't convince you, maybe this will: there is a terrible price to be paid by escalating this conflict in Lebanon to beyond just Hezbollah, which is the very reason Barak pulled out in 2000 - two Israeli lives are not worth the sacrifice of future hundreds or even thousands. I don't care how high minded your principles may sound, an escalation of the Lebanese border conflict will bring more death than Israel is prepared to handle. I don't know if you see it this way yet or not, but please, consider it.

Our greatest advantage as members of Habonim Dror, our acute ties with and sense of Israel, is also a great weakness. We get involved, we get emotional, and we don't fully consider the consequences. I'm asking you to consider that now. Please consider the price Israel will pay down the road for lashing out. In my mind, it's not worth it.

--Jeff

Re: Jeff Rants!, Exciting Conclusion

[gutwoman.livejournal.com]

Jeff, obviously I wish there wasn't such an escalation of violence going on right now. And I agree with the majority of what you just said, although maybe not with the whole one shell for one rocket idea. At the same time, one argument I've heard from the beginning is that Israel IS attacking Lebanon - not just the Hizbollah - for not doing anything about the Hizbollah up til now. Whether or not they could do anything is another story, but the fact of the matter is that they have not... and even in agreement with all the things you just said, I still can't see how at this moment an immediate retreat by Israel would work in calming the entire situation. I really, truly hope it doesn't get more serious though than it is now. And I don't know if this is stupid but Iran's threats scare the crap out of me.